In my view, the synthesis of methanol has become the cornerstone of Carbon2Chem^®. Was this foreseeable at the start of the project?

Matthias Kammel: At the start of the project, we did indeed have other process routes in mind, in addition to methanol synthesis. These included producing higher alcohol, oxymethylene ether and polymers. However, during Carbon2Chem^®, it became apparent that the methanol route was particularly promising. One reason for this is that we have concrete strategies for introducing purified methanol into the transport sector. Methanol is a versatile raw material with great potential as a climate-friendly energy source when produced from CO₂ and green hydrogen.

The focus in the third phase is on further developing the methanol route?

Matthias Kammel: Exactly. We are focusing on refining the processes to ensure they run stably, including through long-term trials that we will conduct next year.

Our goal is to set up and operate the plants in such a way that we can guarantee good methanol quality in the long term. Process reliability, especially regarding changing feedstock conditions, is essential here because it is the only way we can meet industry requirements and reliably implement the results.

Another focus is on expanding the processes, starting with raw methanol and purifying and distilling it to produce technically pure methanol, which is then used as a feedstock to produce aviation fuel. To this end, we are integrating an aviation fuel plant into the process chain so that we can map the entire value chain – from CO₂-containing gases and green hydrogen at the beginning, to finished aviation fuel for use in the aviation industry later. This is an exciting challenge because we not only have to master the chemical processes but also design the plants so that they can be scaled up to an industrial level.

Are there potentially interested buyers for the products?

Matthias Kammel: We are, of course, already in talks with potential buyers. Regarding aviation fuel, we are also in contact with airport operators, airlines and turbine manufacturers through another project. Ultimately, fuel is being redesigned specifically for this purpose: Sustainable Aviation Fuel (SAF). SAFs are designed to reduce CO₂ emissions in aviation and the environmental impact of non-CO₂ effects, such as contrail formation.

There are also specific buyers of methanol in the shipping industry, where methanol can be used as fuel directly and without further synthesis steps. This is particularly true in the cruise ship sector, but methanol can also be used as a more environmentally friendly fuel in transport ships. In this case, too, using methanol instead of conventional heavy fuel oil means that less soot, particles and sulphur oxides are released into the atmosphere. Another smaller sector that we are keeping an eye on is outside of electromobility in the automotive sector. In other words, wherever special requirements make electrification impossible. For example, in racing.

Is there already a concrete business model in place for the period after the project ends?

Matthias Kammel: Definitely! In phase 3, as well as in phase 2, we will utilize all possible contacts in the industry, both with partners directly involved in Carbon2Chem^® and with companies outside the joint project. Our goal is to set up concrete projects and business cases now where we can say: After the funding phase — i.e. after 2028 — we will implement these projects and bring them to market.

We see great potential in aviation fuel because the EU is setting clear regulatory requirements for airlines. Airlines are obliged to continuously increase the proportion of sustainable aviation fuels they use. This begins with a mandatory blending quota of two per cent from January 2025, rising to 70 per cent by 2050. This means that a market is emerging that actively demands our sustainable aviation fuel, which is produced based on methanol.

Was thyssenkrupp Carbon2Chem^® founded for this purpose?

Matthias Kammel: Not directly. We set up thyssenkrupp Carbon2Chem^® because we coordinate all aspects of the project, working with the funding agency, the institutes and industry. We see ourselves as an innovation hub and a central platform where we bring together many stakeholders and initiate specific projects through our contacts.

Ultimately, however, it is industry that implements the projects, whether that be in our own company – thyssenkrupp Uhde, for example – or in other companies, such as thyssenkrupp Nucera. At the Carbon2Chem^® technical center, our task is to establish an initial point of contact where we can demonstrate: This is how it works! Based on our experience of hosting many visitors at the technical center, we believe this is the greatest contribution we can make. This lays the foundation for industry to adopt and further expand our research and development in a practical manner.

How much interest is in both methanol and downstream technologies based on methanol?

Matthias Kammel: The interest is huge worldwide. We constantly receive enquiries, and the international audience is impressive. We give tours of the technical center two or three times a week, with visitors from all kinds of sectors, including high-profile individuals. These range from American oil producers, who are interested in using CO₂ in the US, to companies from Japan, the Middle East, South America and Australia. Many of them have ideal conditions for implementing our solutions economically, which makes them attractive proposition for businesses. But we mustn't forget:

Ultimately, all these chemical processes require sufficient renewable energy. This is mainly found in countries with optimal natural conditions, such as plenty of sun and wind. The long-term goal for all areas of application is to achieve a closed carbon cycle, and Carbon2Chem^® is the bridge that opens the way from CO₂ reduction to this cycle.

How would you assess the prospects for implementing technologies developed in Germany or Europe?

Matthias Kammel: We see considerable potential here. Northern Europe, i.e. the Scandinavian countries, already offers good conditions for renewable energies. In addition to wind power, which is well established in Denmark, for example, there is also hydropower. Hydropower is an important source of energy because these processes depend on a steady supply. Southern Europe also has great potential for renewable energy, particularly in the solar and wind sectors. However, the pace of implementation varies greatly from country to country.

What do you see as the biggest obstacles to implementation?

Matthias Kammel: One issue is that the processes and technologies we are currently developing are cross-industry. This means that different partners must be brought together. This is a real challenge. Conventional business models do not apply here. New agreements must be made so that all parties can collaborate. For example, operators of 'traditional' industries with high CO₂ emissions must first realize that these emissions can also serve as a raw material. This requires a significant change in mindset.

Another point to consider is the financial prerequisite. Ultimately, the focus is on setting up a profitable business model that generates returns. This can be achieved if the regulatory markets are developed accordingly, for example through higher CO₂ certificate prices. Therefore, the challenge is to find the right time to invest and get started so that it pays off in the end. It's like the chicken-and-egg problem: when will the regulations be introduced, and when will the first customers appear? Who will take the first step? Building hydrogen infrastructure is similar: you need customers, such as the steel or chemical industries, as well as suppliers for pipelines and hydrogen production. Now, the interaction is not yet working optimally because the processes and responsibilities are not clear and projects are often delayed.

You have been involved in Carbon2Chem^® from the outset. Has the project developed as you expected?

Matthias Kammel: At first, I approached the project from a financial perspective, but this has helped me to gain a better understanding of the bigger picture. I am amazed at how far Carbon2Chem^® has come, and the impact it has had, especially in terms of its effectiveness and public image. As I said, lots of people are interested in our results. Today, for instance, we had another interesting discussion with SPRIND, the Federal Agency for Breakthrough Innovations of the Federal Ministry of Research, Technology, and Space, which deals with new technologies and start-ups.

The key point I took from this was that, as trailblazers, we can present what we have established since 2016: that you simply take on challenges, supply the funds, and then execute them, rather than over-analyzing what might, could, or should occur beforehand. Just do it! This is also what connects us with Sprunginnovation: we simply implemented something, put it out there and saw it through. We didn't let ourselves be dissuaded, even though people on all sides were saying: 'It won't work. It's pointless.'

I think that's an important lesson: this tenacity from everyone, including the research institutes, to keep pushing forward and demonstrating: Look, we can achieve something here, and that's still possible in Germany. This is truly extraordinary and unique, not only in Germany, but worldwide. To me, this proves how important it is to combine innovative research with practical implementation, breaking new ground with strong partners.

Are there any other lessons learned?

Matthias Kammel: Enthusiasm and team spirit are always the most important factors, as we see every day at Carbon2Chem^®. In a project of this kind, with funding and many participants, a lot of things are highly regulated. This applies not only to industry, but also to research institutes. Team spirit is crucial for overcoming these formal hurdles one by one.

For me, this is an important insight: the challenges have not become any smaller over the years – and yet, at Carbon2Chem^®, we have shown what can be achieved when working towards a goal with enthusiasm and tenacity.

What are the next steps you want to take?

Matthias Kammel: We now want to use the third phase of Carbon2Chem^® to specifically involve start-ups. It is important to us to offer these young companies a platform, whether they want to participate or simply observe. I believe this exchange is extremely valuable, especially when you benefit from an outside perspective on the project.

We have been working together in the project team for a long time, always focusing on the same things. This can sometimes make it difficult to look beyond Carbon2Chem^® and see the exciting projects and ideas out there. However, that is precisely what we now want to focus on: being open to new ideas, seeking dialogue and jointly developing innovative approaches.

Have you got any formats in mind yet?

Matthias Kammel: We will be launching a new format with SPRIND in November. We will invite six to seven teams to give a pitch and present what they could implement with us.

We strongly believe in using formats like this to create a platform where start-ups and research institutions can exchange ideas and develop new ones together. This enables us to bring fresh impetus to the project and encourage collaboration between industry, academia, and young companies. I believe this open exchange is crucial for developing innovative approaches to the sustainable transformation of industry.